Today I am pleased to welcome Josephine Myles and JL Merrow to the low as they continue The Hot Pressure Tour. It was an absolute delight to meet both ladies a little over a week ago (my how time flies) and I offer my congratulations to them both on their most recent releases.
Do Nice Guys Always Finish First in Fiction?
Josephine Myles: Everyone loves the nice guy, don’t they? Come on, just look at him drinking his tea. That big smile and non-threatening pose make him into the perfect romantic hero… or do they?
I have to admit, I’m not much of a fan of the nice guy hero. Anyone who’s too sweet, lovely and kind makes me want to throw my e-reader at the wall. Let’s think about the word “nice”, to begin with. When the word first passed into English 500 years ago, it meant someone who was foolish or stupid. Over the centuries the meaning transformed into particular and finicky, and eventually ended up with the rather insipid way we use it today. I’m willing to eat a nice biscuit, or have a nice cup of tea, but would I really want to fall in love with someone who was just “nice”.
What do you think, Jamie: nice boy or bad boy?
JL Merrow (Jamie): Oh, I’m torn. You see, I get the appeal of the bad boy—I’ve got a definite thing for muscles and tattoos—but I also have a very soft spot for the nice guy. Take Russell in Pricks and Pragmatism—one of the sweetest guys you could meet, with his cuddly sweaters and determination not to take advantage of Luke. Or Matt in Hard Tail, with his klutziness and yummy veggie wraps. And you haven’t even met Jude yet, star of my current WIP, but let me tell you, he’s adorable! You’re going to hate him… 
These are the sort of guys who’ll always greet you with a smile and an offer to cook you dinner–what more could you want?
Jo: Now you’re making me out to be a heartless bitch! ;P
Of course I want my romantic heroes to be likable, but that doesn’t mean they have to be all-round “nice”. I like to think my heroes in The Hot Floor are all good guys, but they’ve all got a more stubborn, difficult side too. Like a pearl, they all need a bit of grit in the works to make that shiny niceness palatable.
But what about Pressure Head, Jamie? Care to share something about the evolution of Phil’s character, who really wasn’t all that likable in the first draft?
Jamie: I think the trouble with first-draft Phil is that he wasn’t very keen on letting his guard down. Final version Phil is readier to show his softer side, and all the more likable for it. So thanks for pulling me up on that one! Also, while I, the author, knew Phil to be the sort of guy who helped out at homeless shelters, it wasn’t so apparent to the reader in his actions on page in the first draft.
But I’m starting to think in any case that maybe we have different definitions of “nice.” I think all three of your guys are lovely! Okay, maybe Josh is a bit stubborn, but the other two are total sweeties! *braces self for reaction*
Jo: Yeah, all right. You caught me playing devil’s advocate. They’re sweeties. I agree. But they’re definitely not perfect, and they’re not nice all the time. Rai can be bitchy and jealous, Evan can be controlling, and Josh is hopelessly in denial as to his true nature, which can lead to immature behaviour and foot in mouth syndrome. Perfection: perhaps that’s the real issue. I need a character to be likable in some way to support them (especially in a romance), but too much niceness and my teeth begin to hurt. It’s also a bit boring, wouldn’t you agree?
Jamie: Ah, denial… I think there’s a blog post in there somewhere! But yes, every character has to have some flaws, or they’re simply not believable as a person.
Jo: Agreed. And I can’t help it, but I’ve always fancied the villain of the piece. I’d take Alan Rickman’s Sheriff of Nottingham over Kevin Costner’s noble (and very American) Robin Hood any day. I think the bad guys usually have so much more charisma, and their morality is often intriguingly murky. I’ve always been a fan of slashing characters on film and tv, and you always end up with a much more intriguing pairing that way than the usually rather bland relationship between hero and heroine. Think Maverick and Ice Man in Top Gun—I’m sure that sizzling sexual tension wasn’t merely in my imagination!
Jamie: Oh, come on, Alan Rickman v Kevin Costner is hardly a fair example! And for that matter, I’m not sure I’m ready to think of Tom Cruise as having sizzling sexual tension with anyone! But apart from that, I’d have to agree, it’s often more fun pairing the bad (but redeemable) boy with the nice guy.
What do you think about two bad boys together? Um, that’s suitable for polite company, I mean!
Jo: Jamie—you just fried my brain and made go on a search for those pictures of the two guys with the tattoos and the half-ripped off clothing I so adore. Of course, we can’t show them here because they’re copyrighted (and NSFW!), but I can certainly put in a link to enlighten readers as to just what I think happens when two bad boys get together! http://www.beautifulmag.com/beautiful/2008/10/lets-talk-about.html
I think it’s probably harder to make a romance work with two bad boys as they need someone more sensible to balance them out… but you see, I’m now going to take that as a challenge and my muse is getting all twitchy and excited. That really isn’t what my next project is meant to be about. Damn you, Jamie!
Jamie: *Rubs hands together in gleeful anticipation of next beta job*
Readers, what do you think? Bad boy or nice boy—which would you snog, marry or avoid?
Comment to win! Jo and Jamie are both offering a choice of a book from their backlist to one lucky commenter on this post, and all commenters will also be entered into a draw for the grand prize (details here), to be announced on 8th October.
About the books:
Pressure Head
Some secrets are better left hidden.
When Tom, a plumber with a talent for finding hidden things, is called in to help the police locate the body of a missing woman, he unexpectedly encounters a familiar face. Phil, Tom’s old school crush, now a private investigator working the same case.
Tom’s attraction to the big, blond investigator hasn’t changed—in fact, he’s even more desirable all grown up. But is Phil’s interest genuine, or does he only want to use Tom’s talent? Meanwhile, the evidence around the woman’s murder piles up…while the murderer’s trigger finger is getting increasingly twitchy.
The Hot Floor
Two plus one equals scorching hot fun.
Every time Josh overhears his sexy downstairs neighbors, Rai and Evan, having loud and obviously kinky sex, Josh is overwhelmed with lust…and a longing for a fraction of the love he’s never managed to find. On the night a naked Josh falls—quite literally—into the middle one of Rai and Evan’s marathon sex sessions, the force of their mutual attraction takes control. But just as Josh dares to hope, he senses a change. Leaving him to wonder if the winds of love are about to blow his way at last…or if history is about to repeat itself.
About the authors:
JL Merrow is that rare beast, an English person who refuses to drink tea. She read Natural Sciences at Cambridge, where she learned many things, chief amongst which was that she never wanted to see the inside of a lab ever again. Her one regret is that she never mastered the ability of punting one-handed whilst holding a glass of champagne.
She writes across genres, with a preference for contemporary gay romance and the paranormal, and is frequently accused of humour.
Find JL Merrow online at: www.jlmerrow.com/
English through and through, Josephine Myles is addicted to tea and busy cultivating a reputation for eccentricity. She writes gay erotica and romance, but finds the erotica keeps cuddling up to the romance, and the romance keeps corrupting the erotica. Jo blames her rebellious muse but he never listens to her anyway, no matter how much she threatens him with a big stick. She’s beginning to suspect he enjoys it.
For more information about Jo’s published stories, regular blog posts and saucy free reads, visit JosephineMyles.com
Nice boy picture courtesy of FreeDigitalPhotos.net
[...] find Jo and me over at Tam Reads, Writes & Rambles where we’ll be musing on the subject of Do Nice Guys Always Finish First? Leave a comment on the post to be entered into the draws for an ebook from each of our backlists, [...]
Two bad boys, all the way :> so much angst, fighting, and no one’s a victim, cause they’re both a-holes he he It has to be a very special kind of nice guy for me to like him
Yeah, two bad boys can definitely work well. I do love a man with a bit of attitude
It’s actually worrying when I think about some of my characters… mafia killer, highschool bully, trailor park redneck, convict, aspiring dictator… haha, oh well, there is something out there for everyone. That’s the best thing about books
LOL! You clearly like a bit of excitement in your romance, Kat!
He he, absolutely!
Plot twists, secrets and intense characters. I don’t mind fights and blood spilling, eye-losing, ear-cutting, scars…
Who doesn’t like an anti-hero?! I can think of some wonderful bad guys out there in m/m romance who make my toes curl, but there needs to be balance too. A nice guy who is willing to stand up to the bad guy’s bullshit and call him on it. That’s the sort of pairing I love. Two nice guys together can work but often that sort of pairing is a little dull. Two bad guys often makes me want to bang their heads together, so yes, balance is the key
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Anti-heroes FTW! I’d definitely rather have the two bad guys than the two nice ones, but then again, they do have to be bad guys with a sweet side, even if it is well hidden. So yeah, balance in the characters as well as in the pairing.
I think everyone likes a bad boy to a point. Like the motorcycle driving leather wearing tattooed drummer of a punk band. BUT, no one wants the drug addicted pimp killer who molests kids.
I think there is so much emphasis in people’s lives to conform to society’s norms of what is acceptable, that we rather envy and admire those who say “screw that, I’m going to do what I want to do” as long as it’s not harming others. Sometimes we wish we had as much courage to do the same.
So I like bad boy characters to a point. They have to have a core of goodness, they have to care about something or someone, otherwise they become too off-putting. But I like nice guys too. Hmmm. Can I have both?
I’m not sure I’d want EVERY book to have an anti-hero or bad boy though. That can get tiring. People are very diverse so I like that I can read about the bad boy assassin in one book, along side the nice guy who’s helping to raise his sister’s kids in the next book.
Yeah, you’re right. I mean, I refuse to consider serial killers as heroes which is why I’m really resistant to watching Dexter, no matter how many people tell me I’ll love it. Damn you, Tam, you’re just too reasonable for words! Diversity is great, though. This is why I probably need to write those bad boys…
What about other types of killers?
Assassins can be hot. LOL Not that I’d know personally.
You want to be on their good side
I’ll admit that’s my favourite – one of each! I like the contrast between a bad boy and a nice guy, and the way they can knock corners off each other.
This is a topic that fits the ‘everythng in moderation’ adage. As you’ve all said, a bad boy adds that edge, what will he do next tension – but the other cant be too nice for me otherwise I wont believe!
And you all looked to be having a great time at Brighton from the pics on Jo’s site!
Brighton was amazing.
Too much fun. (well, not really, but plenty of fun)
I think bad boys have much more inherent appeal than good boys, but I acknowledge that may just be me. I always was a rebel and fancied non-conformist types. Still do
We had a fabulous time in Brighton, Suze! Sorry you couldn’t make it.
Oh, absolutely – too nice can be just as much a turn-off as not nice enough!
I have to admit to liking nice. I have a bit of a fetish for decent, compassionate people who are very good at what they do being put into untenable positions that challenge them, particularly when the really nice person is coaxed by a freer spirit into discovering the pleasures of being a little bit naughty.
Of course for that you need a ‘bad boy’ but I’d prefer them not to be too bad. I find it very hard to suspend my disbelief when a nice bloke falls for someone who treats him horribly.
Oh, all right Elin, I agree with you. Decent, hardworking people can make fabulous heroes too. And bad boys can’t be too awful. And there was me trying to play devil’s advocate. You’ve ruined it all, I tell you
Oh, yes – my inner sadist loves nice guys in impossible positions! ;P
And as you say, there’s a difference between a guy being a bit of a rebel, and someone who treats people like dirt.
You know, I actually like both, and I enjoy there being enough m/m out there that I can read both. I think I like the nice sensible guy just as much as the fuck-it-all guy who has an edge.
I’d like to see a character written out there that’s nice and sensible on the outside, but is really a bad boy on the inside. And I don’t mean a smarmy jackass Don Draper type (though John Hamm is sexxxxy) because they usually just piss me off
Not a player! Kinda like Superman .. but god I love Clark Kent!
A bad boy on the inside? Interesting idea, Cole – sort of a reverse of the “bad boy with a heart of gold” you see more frequently! I do like characters who surprise me with hidden depths, and there’s something very seductive about the seemingly conventional guy who turns out to be a total badass.
Ooh, I do love Don Draper despite (because of?) his bad behaviour–but only because I can see he’s tortured because of it. And yeah, having characters who are hiding their attitude, only to have it all explode out in arse-kicking, righteous fury is always fun
I have a love/hate relationship with Don Draper (LOL). I really thought he’d change with his new wife…
*Sucker*
Sssh! I still haven’t seen the latest series. Waiting for it to come out on DVD later this month.
ooops! :< sorry!
No worries – I know he’s never going to change. And he married the wrong woman anyway. He always does.
I’ve never really been attracted to bad boys…they always seem as one-dimensional to me as a lot of milquetoasty good guys do. I like the idea of a sympathetic, sweet guy with his share of kinks and mischief behind closed doors (even if he isn’t aware of them yet…I guess I like the idea of corrupting someone, and I guess I’m going to hell. Oh well.)
Now there’s an idea – find your nice guy, and turn him into a tailor-made bad boy! You get the best of both worlds! ;D
I think that makes you the bad girl, doesn’t it? ;P
I have to admit, I like them both? I especially like them paired together LOL. I like the nice boy that has the guts to get in the bad boy’s face and not take his shit. I like the nice boy that can stand toe to toe with the bad boy. And I like the bad boy that challenges the nice boy to step outside his comfort zone a bit and live life on the wild side sometimes.
So yeah, balance it is for me LOL.
Yes – they each have something to offer the other, don’t they? Balance is good. *nods*
Stepping out of comfort zones is good for both of them, I have to agree
I like a bad boy, but I think it’s because I can easily delude myself into believing I can “change” him.
I think a lot of people have that fantasy.
Yep, but it never works, does it? *Sighs* You have to love them with the bad parts intact.
The Bad Boys are exciting and appealing, but the fictional character I’ve come closest to really falling in love with in a serious way is Inspector Armand Gamache of the Three Pines mystery series — and he’s an intensely nice person in all respects. Gentle, kind, wise, and slow to anger — but also resolute, protective, and a bad enemy to have. I have often said that I would happily knock off his wife, if he were real, in order to put him back on the market.
LOL! Sounds like you’d better make sure he’s on your side first!
Mmm, bad boys are sexy, but a nice guy is probably more of a keeper.
So true! And, sadly enough, the character of his wife is also a very nice and kind person. Probably too nice to push in front of a train. I’ll just have to pray that he might go in for bigamy, I suppose!
Perhaps there could be a tragic accident, after which he would, of course, require a lot of comforting…
That’s why you’re an author and I’m just a reader. Good ideas!
I think writers who can make a good guy that compelling are wonderful. They sound well worth a read
They’re by Louise Penny. I highly recommend the series, although I had to stop reading for awhile when she started being mean to My Hero….
Edgy, dark characters with a moral core of human decency are the best kind! I don’t like reading about the truly evil, but “badness” can be good. Some tension between edgy people and innocents is great. Well written goodies can be as compelling as .baddies
Yes, that moral core is what we need, isn’t it? I love the contrast between the edgy outside and the decency they’re doing their best to hide under all the attitude. Multi-dimensional characters are always intriguing.
A nice, bad boy works for me!!!
As long as he’s good to you, he can do what he likes to everyone else? I can see the attraction of that!
The best kind of bad boy
Oh, this is a tough one. As long as the bad boy has a heart of gold, then he’s a keeper. In most situations, though, I would err on the side of the nice guy because then you’ll know what you’re getting from day one. No games or chasing in real life for me! Romance is hard enough to get right/find the right one as it is.
Yes, it does kind of depend what you’re looking for, doesn’t it? Bad boys can be exciting, but a nice guy is more likely to remember your birthday/bring you a cuppa in the morning!
Hi Nico. I know what you’re saying, but then again, sometimes it’s the superficially “nice” guys who play the worst games. A bad boy can be more straightforward, sometimes. Hmmm, I’m getting all these plot bunnies start to shake their tails at me now…
I wouldn’t want a REALLY bad boy…but bad boy with a heart of gold? I am ALL over that! In my life I’ve had the good, the bad and the ugly. Bad was more work, good was to vanilla…and the ugly? Mean as a taz but not as sweet
Got to admit, Mimi, I had a couple of ugly boyfriends in my teens, but they were beautiful to me. One of them would definitely fit the bad boy image (homemade tattoos, gang/travelling past, shaved head), but he was just a big kitten inside. They usually are, I find.
I like the idea of a bad boy, but I think in real life I would want a nice guy wiling to settle down with a simple nice life! What am I going to do with a leather wearing motorcycle driving, oh, actually that sounds hot! LOL
OceanAkers @ aol.com
Oh yes, it’s a tough decision, isn’t it?! I think the nice boys probably settle down into domestic bliss much more easily, though.
I would definitely snog a bad boy, but as for marrying him? I think I’d marry the nice guy with a secret naughty side
tiger-chick-1(at)hotmail(dot)com
Oh, those secret naughty sides are just wonderful! People can look so conventional on the outside, but have the most outrageous hobbies and kinks ;P
[...] Chances to win backlist ebooks from JL Merrow and Josephine Myles on the Hot Pressure blog tour at Pants Off Reviews and Tam’s Reads. [...]
I’d take a good guy with some spice to him. Depends what is meant by bad boys. They can be fun for a while but not for the long run.
strive4bst(At) yahoo(Dot) com
Yeah, maybe. And you would worry if you did end up “reforming” someone, that they might go back to old habits the minute your back was turned…
I love a great read with bad boys! They make the best fun..
Yvette
yratpatrol@aol.com
Definitely fun! Wild behaviour can make great fiction
I’m all about the anti-heroes, personally. Although giving a nice guy two conflicting versions of good, where they can’t hold themself to both standards is also fun.
That’s definitely the kind of torture I enjoy seeing characters put through – especially if they’re essentially decent people.
I’m an Alpha kinda Gal, so I Love my Bad Boys!
Mmmmm an Erotically Dominant Alpha Male (or two lol) with a Darkly Sinful Persona, Tall, Dark & GORGEOUS Impressive Physique who is also Playfully Naughty with a twist of Evil that can make your Panties disappear with His Sensually Sexy Eyes. A Bad Boy, but would do anything for the one he loves, so he does he a tender side that his Love would only see.
Take Care & Stay Naughty,
PaParanormalFan (Renee’ S.)
paranormalromancefan at yahoo dot com
Oh yes!
I agree with that. He can be all sorts of ‘bad’ to the world, as long as he loves his partner 
Yep, sending off those Bad*ss Vides to others but a Caring Teddy Bear & Smoking Hawt Lover to his Partner.
WooHoo LOL
Sounds like a classic het romance hero! Yep, that’s definitely a great fantasy character
Hi Josephine,
~~~ I don’t read het romances…..& reading the books from fantastic Authors like yourself, JL & soooo many others I couldn’t possibly name 
….your Books are soooo Smokin’ Hawt, my panties do disappear. LOL OMG I’m reallllyyyy Bad! lol
Oh yessss, they’re my great Fantasy Characters, but in my M/M Reads Mmmmm
Love bad boys turned loving!
Don’t we all, Gigi? ;D